Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

[Welker]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Maybe somebody should open a Corvair thread....oh man, the stories. I had four of 'em and one was a Texaco company car. All but one had horror stories galore but strangely enough all four have a soft spot for me. As bad as they were, each one, perhaps due to the horror stories, has a special memory for me...and I'll bet I'm not alone.

[Dallasblackbird]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Okay, no question the Corvair generates lots of memories. Heater....yep I smelled like 10W30 after turning on the heat. (I owned one of Ralph Naders favorites... 63)

Thanks to that wonderful rear suspension that hinged only at the transmission, I did a sliding curve one day that ended in the pole vault maneuver that killed lots of people. Luckily I didn't flip the car.

On the positive side. I could pull the engine in an hour. I even made a dolly out of 2x4s to roll the engine out.

On the negative, I needed a dolly to roll the engine out way too often to repair problems.

But, to put this back on the thread topic.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...d_history.html

In my opinion, 1967 Ford should have dropped the Thunderbird name and called them Thunderbarge.

1983 model change I like, but nothing about it makes me think of Thunderbird.

2002 should have been the first Thunderbird named car since the 60s.

[007Cruiser]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Here's my Corvair memory. When I was in ninth grade one of the teachers was late for work one day. Seems she crossed some railroad tracks in her brand new Corvair and the engine fell out!!!

[MerlotBlue]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Okay, no question the Corvair generates lots of memories. Heater....yep I smelled like 10W30 after turning on the heat. (I owned one of Ralph Naders favorites... 63)

Thanks to that wonderful rear suspension that hinged only at the transmission, I did a sliding curve one day that ended in the pole vault maneuver that killed lots of people. Luckily I didn't flip the car.

On the positive side. I could pull the engine in an hour. I even made a dolly out of 2x4s to roll the engine out.

On the negative, I needed a dolly to roll the engine out way too often to repair problems.

But, to put this back on the thread topic.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...d_history.html

In my opinion, 1967 Ford should have dropped the Thunderbird name and called them Thunderbarge.

1983 model change I like, but nothing about it makes me think of Thunderbird.

2002 should have been the first Thunderbird named car since the 60s.

The more recently thougth of "Thelma and Louise" T-Birds were among the last Thunderbirds worth any mention in my mind.

To me the name "thunderbird" will always conjure up images of a two-seater and no thought of a back seat is allowed in my view of what the car is supposed to be.

Sill, those "Super-coupes" among the last of the "birds" before the name went into moth-balls........adn of course the bigger Birds of the early and mid-60s had enough style or unique features to allow 'em a place in my idea of the car.

My biggest problem with the T-Birds of the 70s and the normally aspirated versions from the 80s and 90s is in the idea that they just don't stand out on their own as something more than just another bread and butter Ford "grocery getter".


As for the "corvairs".........hey, Chevy got a lot WRONG with that car........still an awful lot of before it's time thinking in 'em though.

Turbo charged.......... independent suspension under an inexpensive car........ rear engine.............complete trans-axle and engine combo..........air cooled..........these were an awful lot of unique features pretty early on for Detroit.

It's almost like GM tried to give you too much at once and it blew up in their face.

A combo VW, Corvette, Porsche.......all at a Ford Falcon or Chevy II price tag. The idea failed pretty miserably. It's almost as if the car didn't know what it was supposed to be.


For fun though.......... might be kinda cool to put something like this together today. The kits were made by a company called "Crown engineering" and they actually WORK. I've driven one built by a good friend who was absolutely obsessed with these little cars.

A "Corv-eight" is a heck of a ride. The scream of a Chevy small block and headers in the passenger compartment with you is an ear splitting experience...........bring your ear plugs.

Here's a picture I found on the "net" of a very cleanly done convertible. Looks like the way to go ......... ANYTHING so that you aren't INSIDE with the engine seems like a better idea to me.

The mid-engine design is simply amazing. This little 2700lb BOMB refuses to either over or under-steer. Detroit has never built a car with this much natural balance.

[Welker]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Even though I could write a book about the Corvair(I had one with the gasoline heater---BOOM!) I would mention, Steve, that one of things GM got wrong was, according to an engineer who worked on the original plans), the revolutionary car required tooling of $80 million, peanuts now but a lot of money in the early sixties, and the accountants and executives approved only $40 million so, as my friend said, GM built half a car....by the time they discontinued it they had a car but no customers.
My opinion is that Ford built Thunderbirds for the first three years and the last four. I'll bet the name will be back and I hope it will be on a Thunderbird.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

Even though I could write a book about the Corvair(I had one with the gasoline heater---BOOM!) I would mention, Steve, that one of things GM got wrong was, according to an engineer who worked on the original plans), the revolutionary car required tooling of $80 million, peanuts now but a lot of money in the early sixties, and the accountants and executives approved only $40 million so, as my friend said, GM built half a car....by the time they discontinued it they had a car but no customers.
My opinion is that Ford built Thunderbirds for the first three years and the last four. I'll bet the name will be back and I hope it will be on a Thunderbird.

I agree with your assessment on the T-Birds and the Corvair.

T-Birds are a HALO car for Ford as the Corvette always has been for Chevrolet. Does it have to be a 2 seater? I dunno but it sure seems that way to me. I like those early 60s T-Birds, like the one featured in Thelma and Lousie........they made an entire scene around the power trunk lid that was pretty unique in it's day.


The Corvair is proof you have to listen to your customers FIRST and your critics second.


Ralph Nader devoted an entire chapter to this "one car accident" called "Corvair" and if we're honest with ourselves......... Ralph was right about Detroit at the time.

No car had a more dramatic make-over than the Corvair.

1960-64 models were a HORROR show too damned dangerous to drive, IMO.

1965-69 models like the one pictured above were dramatically improved cars.

Swing axl rear independent suspension replaced with the design shared with Corvette......a u-joint at the differential and at the wheel cured the roll-ever problems of the 1960-64 cars.

Collapsible steering columns replaced the SPEER that impaled unlucky drivers of the early cars that had front end collisions.......fact is many Detroit offerings had a similar design but when there is no engine in front and the steering box is in front of the steering linkage rather than behind.......... YIKES!!!!

Many safety and engineering improvements actually made the NEW Corvair in 1965 a car with real potential........BUT........

It was ironic that the real death of Corvair wasn't Ralph Nader and his "Unsafe at any Speed"..............it was cross town rival Ford and the new 1964 Mustang that KILLED the Corvair despite how much better it had become.

Chevy needed the Camaro.......the Corvair was TOAST.

[slumpee5604]

Re: Another Retro v. Early Bird Debate ...

I pretty much agree with all that has been said. The only cars worthy of the "Thunderbird" name are the 55-57 and the 02-05. That being said, I had a 84 that was a really nice car. I got it after graduating from college, and it was a real "chick magnet". Took my wife on our first date in it. Kept it until the babies came, and then got something more practical. I was always proud to drive it, and wish I still had it.