Double doctoring for Amadeus

[HeelBird]

My 2002 has had occasional issues with the a/c as well as the rough running......nothing consistent, but still has happened over the first 85k miles.

A/C really started to act up on a trip during my most recent vacation week at the end of July. Decided to get it checked out....nobody knew exactly what to look for, since no one around here has worked on a retro Bird. Wasn't going to take it to the local dealership, since the owners who had the business when I bought the car in Nov of 2001 has sold it to the guy who also owns the Chev/BMW/Caddy auto mall.

Pretty much figured out that the a/c issue was vacuum related, so a high school classmate who's had a career in working on autos checked with his brother, who works for a Ford dealership in Dunn, NC. As has been listed on various TBN threads, the culprit valve is about $200, and is located near the bottom of the radiator. Part was ordered and came in last Wednesday. He's going to replace it, and is now working on the valve cover/plug issue. Has removed one of the covers and has seen evidence of the oil around some of the plugs.

Good news is that he's getting to it and it'll cost me less than having a dealership do the work. Bad part is that he does the work after hours from his full time job, which means I'll be flying Enterprise, the '95 SuperCoupe, for 2+ weeks while Amadeus is in the hospital.

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Almost have my Bird back.

Got a call from the doctor last night.....he had to take the ride to a local garage to use the lift in order to install the a/c valve....he thought he was through with the COPS repairs, until he saw oil coming from under one of the replaced valve covers. Figures the gasket/seal must have dislodged when he was replacing the cover. Now plans on getting through with the job sometime tomorrow.

He told me that other than his own vehicles, this will be the last auto he works on........sounds like the challenge of getting to those plugs got the best of him. He did tell me that there were multiple cylinders showing signs of oil.

I'm ready to take Amadeus on a trip.......seems like forever since my last flight in the retro.

[DavidA]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Greg: An Lincoln dealer/service dep't. is well qualified to work on the TBird. As I've said MANY MANY times .. it is basically an Lincoln LS. Ford had virtually nothing to do with this car.

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

I checked with the locals first. I wouldn't take it to the Kinston dealer since the new owner also owns the Chev/BMW dealer........has a pretty sleazy reputation. Dealer in LaGrange has worked on 1 retro a/c problem, and they took out the dash and the bill topped $2k. I called the small dealership in Trenton, and they said they'd have to figure it out........nobody around here has worked on one of the cars before, it seems. Closest L-M dealer is in Goldsboro (about 30 miles away). Haven't been there before, don't know anyone who works there, and didn't want to leave the car with unknowns.

Hopefully, my classmate knows what he's doing.

He did give me an update last week.....said he stopped working on the car for 4 hours on Saturday while he, his wife and daughter looked for a bolt that he dropped......was afraid he might have dropped it into the engine.

[5bird7]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Greg, Since your friend had to replace the valve cover gaskets, did he also replace the 0-ring gaskets at the base of each spark plug well? They do need to be replaced if there was oil in the wells. I suppose you could assume he did or he wouldn't have replaced the valve cover gaskets.
Took George and Sally's friend about 8 hours to remove and replace those gaskets plus the coils and spark plugs. Without help, George would have taken 2 days or well into the night. It was those darn back bolts that took all the time up.

and yes, George had to locate a dropped bolt or two. In fact I had to stick my head under the car (tight squeeze) to find one of them lodged into a slot in behind a wheel. Used a magnet to get it out.

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Yes, he said he was replacing the O rings.

Talked about how the covers extend a ways into the firewall area. mentioning that the engine was installed onto the chassis, then the body was lowered onto the assembly. Also said to remove the engine from an F-150 you have to take off the cab.

I guess autos haven't been built for the last 30 years that are mechanic friendly!

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Got the call this afternoon that Amadeus was ready. Guy said the a/c was working fine, that he was running fine, but said that the idle wasn't as smooth as he would like (immediately raising my level of concern). He left the key in the car for me to pick up after hours, since he was heading to a Grange meeting at 5:30.

I went by his house and retrieved my ride. About a 15 mile drive back home......a/c works fine. Idle is indeed not smooth. For a portion of the trip back, the engine ran ok......then the hesitation/stuttering started again. Had the opportunity to pass an Explorer from Florida doing a whopping 40MPH in a 55 zone......not the smoothest power boost I've ever felt.

Pretty disappointed right now. The bill, which was in the car for me to cover tomorrow afternoon, totals $771.85. Parts breakdown shows $113.82 for 2 valve cover gaskets, $66.80 for the 8 spark plugs and $274.80 for the a/c blend valve.......$180 for 4.5 hours labor to replace the valve cover gaskets and $100 to replace the a/c valve.

Odd........no mention of the O-rings. I sure hope they were replaced....will definitely ask about that tomorrow.

He did say something about the possibility of needing a coil. Since I'm totally mechanically inept, is there just 1 of those things? Might it be the cause of the continued sputtering?

[04birdman]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

COP FAILURE

[DavidA]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

New plugs were not necessary unless the car had over 100,000 miles as they are platinum from the factory.

New plugs ARE necessary when you put in a new coil. Your car definitely needs a coil. Your mechanic should have put in 8 new ones since he already had the coil covers off. Now you will probably need yeat another new gasket.

Sorry for the bad news, but this has been covered over and over again on various threads. He did NOT do you any favors.

The sputtering now is for sure at least 1 bad coil. CHANGE ALL 8 and make him do the labor gratus ... just pay for the coils as this should have been a no-brainer for him and you.

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

He said that 3 of the plugs had oil, fwiw.

I passed on to him the wisdom of these threads, re: the coils, and certainly thought he was taking care of that as well, especially since his brother works at a Ford dealership in the parts department. The brother supposedly consulted with the service manager at the dealer for information.

[My Raven]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Sorry to hear this Greg ...

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Called the service dept at Deacon Jones Ford-Lincoln-Mercury in Goldsboro this morning. They said they've handled numerous coil/plug problems. The tech said the coils are about $90 each, with an installation charge for the 2 hour job of $180, so a total expense of about $1,000.

Then called a local garage (where I get my tire and oil changes handled). The owner also has worked on a number of 3.9's. Verified what the DJ tech told me, that the coils can be replaced without removing the valve covers.....his price with Ford parts is $725, tops.

Amadeus back to the doc in the AM. Had better be purring like a contented kitten when I get him back.........

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Patient is out of the facility.

No recurring issues with the a/c thusfar, so the blend valve replacement appears to be working. Thankfully, we tried that after noticing the heat from one side started after a deceleration, which indicated it was a vacuum controlled part, so no one tried to remove the dash. Very comforting to know after hearing that one of the local Ford dealers did just that, and the owner was out $1800 for the job.

The new doctor today replaced all 8 coils ($79.64 each, totalling $637.12) with a labor charge of $99. Tax brought the bill to $785.50. He also cleaned up the throttle box (whatever that might be).....said it had some carbon build-up, which is a characteristic (he said) of many Fords.

Idle is very smooth. Felt nary a blip on the way home, today. Temp was in the lower 90's, and the chiller worked perfectly. Got the opportunity to test the passing gear, and the rocket zipped around the slower auto with a seamless application of power and acceleration.

Now, maybe I'm ready for the next 9 years and 85,000 miles. Feel much better about taking the trip to New Jersey next weekend for the Carolina-Rutgers football game.

[HeelBird]

Re: Double doctoring for Amadeus

Dropped the top this AM when I left the restaurant and breakfast to head into work.....got caught behind a tractor trailer load of hogs........'bout gagged me........figured Amadeus couldn't breathe, either, so I engaged light speed when the traffic light changed and bolted around him.

Gee, it's nice to feel that engine kick in when it's running properly.