pcm problem

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

Doesn't the Lincoln LS use the same PCM?

There are plenty of LS's on the road.

As for Ford not pushing the TBird, respectfully, I disagree. Every auto enthusiast car magazine had pictures and articles about the new TBird.

If you went to an autoshow back then, or walked into a Ford dealership, you couldn't help but stub your toe against a TBird.

TV exposure?

Not much, maybe one commercial, but if you were Ford, where would you put your marketing dollars? Explorer or TBird? TownCar or LS?

Didn't see too many LS commercials either.

(See any Corvette commercials lately?)

Actually, I do see quite a few Corvette commercials. Then there is the HALO market placement of a Corvette in those generic Chevrolet and General Motors branded commercials. The car featured in virtually all of 'em.

Comparing the Retro-Bird to the Corvette SEEMS like a reasonable thing to do but nope.

There is really no comparison here at all.

Ford's car with the aftermarket interest that matches and probably exceeds Corvette is the Mustang.

It took DECADES of uninterrupted manufacturing to create the loyal following that ensures the steady stream of aftermarket suppliers for both Corvette and Mustang. Sadly our Retro-Bird has a lot going against it on this one. Small production numbers only scratch the surface. Older owners, as often female as they are male, and you come up with a picture of poor potential for the aftermarket.

Corvettes and Mustangs are owned mostly by men........ many of which actually call a day with a chance to "wrench on 'em" a "Good day"

This shows up in terms of part suppliers and availability of the pieces you need to keep and aging car running and looking GREAT!

I've owned and kept at least one Corvette and sometimes more than one for nearly 30 years running now. I can tell you that right off the top of my head I can think of 4 Catalog sales companies (Ecklers, RIKS, MidAmerica and Year one) that I use that have been around for more than 20 years each and some even longer. Then the INTERNET company sales and parts offers.......WOW........ I swear you could just about build any year Corvette now from the parts bin available to you. I'm sure the same could be said of most any Mustang.

Even in my local area....... in a small town just outside Concord NH there is a Corvette wrecking yard that specializes in recycled parts. What they don't have they know how to get from other such yard across the country.

Yeah, it helps that they build more of these cars. Mustangs are as big a seller as they come but in reality the Corvette is a RELATIVELY small production vehicle vs most. So while you might expect the aftermarket interest in the Mustang on numbers alone. I'm not sure I'd say that about the Corvette. This is the success of the brand and the loyalty of it's decades long supporters.

Our problem here? ....and where things are just sooooo....different?

This truly is a VERY LIMITED interest car. Sure we love 'em but for the most part the car is a LOSER for anyone looking to build us parts. It was in production for what was but a moment in time. That may make 'em rare but in this case "RARE" isn't a good thing.

I can't help but think, at this point,.......... if I were to have the accident that totals one of my own T-Birds (God FORBID!)........ I think I'd be awfully tempted to take the smaller insurance settlement that allows me to retain the "carcass".......... seems like any smashed Bird is going to be a treasure trove of hard to find parts soon, if not already.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

I often wonder how many owners would like to take a long cruise with there Bird but are not to sure of the reliability .Just think if you were 500+ miles away and the PCM went and no signs of finding one,what do you do.

I don't know. It's still just a small car. Not something so big you can't move it when it won't move itself.

I'd probably head over to the local U-haul and acquire the necessary car hauler and bring it on home. Leaving the car "500 miles" from home at an unknown repair shop with no definite time table wouldn't be any more acceptable to me than it would you.

That said......if I ever get that skeptical and worried for the potential that I was afraid to drive 'em...... I'd sell 'em anyway.


I don't think things are nearly so bad yet for parts availability......despite the negative tone in this thread.

[2K2BIRD]

Re: pcm problem

I often wonder how many owners would like to take a long cruise with there Bird but are not to sure of the reliability .Just think if you were 500+ miles away and the PCM went and no signs of finding one,what do you do.

We are planning a trip that will take us about 3000 miles from home this summer. I haven't even thought of cancelling it because of this issue.

If it or something else happens to the car during the trip, we'll just follow my friend PaulD's advise and "deal with it".

I refuse to have my fun diminished by something that MIGHT happen. It is a risk I'm willing to take and I'm not a big risk taker by nature.

For those of you that are afraid to drive your car because the PCM may quit working, please sell it and let someone else enjoy it. Heck, they might even join TBN and become a new caravan buddy for some of us.

[Phillip]

Re: pcm problem

i belive this is probly true......no one has come up with a real alternative...still have no idea if the LS or jag will work or if an aftermarket will work? the best recourse is to order the part thru your state atty. generals office and the EPA

I am totally confused. What does the Environmental Protection Agency have to do with this issue? Does EPA stand for something else?

[jerrym3]

Re: pcm problem

merlotblue

Guess I'm going to have to stop DVR'ing and fast forwarding through all those GM commercials, because I don't remember viewing any commercials for the Corvette.

As a GM halo car? Maybe, but why didn't Ford do the same thing?

Comparing the two?

Only in that they are low volume vehicles and, as such, aren't worth big sales campaigns.

The Corvette has always kept it's focus, even in years when performance was a tough target to hit.

The TBird's been all over the place. That's why Corvette owners are probably more loyal. They love the car starting from the mid 50's, not just 55 thru 57, and 2002 thru 2005.

Now, before you all start jumping all over my farkel, I've owned only one Corvette, but I've owned four TBirds. The TBird is much more practical.

And, I'm not really that thrilled over the latest Corvette/Ferrari wannabe's. I think they may have lost their way. As a 22 year old in 1965, I could afford a new Corvette. As a 22 year old today, I doubt it.

The performance market for the regular guy wanting an American car has shifted to the Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers. IMHO, the Corvette buyer has morphed into the older male looking to grab back some youth.

(Come to think about it, what's wrong with that?)

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

merlotblue

Guess I'm going to have to stop DVR'ing and fast forwarding through all those GM commercials, because I don't remember viewing any commercials for the Corvette.

As a GM halo car? Maybe, but why didn't Ford do the same thing?

Yes, I agree Ford's Thunderbird was something of a HALO car but then again........NOT really. In hind-sight?.......durring the T-Birds latest run the REAL Halo car was probably the Ford GT.

Comparing the two?

Only in that they are low volume vehicles and, as such, aren't worth big sales campaigns.

The Corvette has always kept it's focus, even in years when performance was a tough target to hit.

The TBird's been all over the place. That's why Corvette owners are probably more loyal. They love the car starting from the mid 50's, not just 55 thru 57, and 2002 thru 2005.

In that thought you've probably hit the nail squarely on the head.

I can't come up with a better more concise reason for the TOTAL failure to produce loyalty to the brand and really well known name that is "Thunderbird".
I honestly believe this car with it's HUGE head start in the 1950s could have compared to Corvette the way Mustangs compare to Camaros. But as you so accurately state.......no focus on what a Thunderbird is results in a car that sells to completely different buyers with each new twist on the basic car.

Born in 1960 means I wasn't around for the out-cry from the brand new T-Bird faithful in 1957 as those first 4 seat coupes hit the show rooms in preparation for a 1958 model year.

Now, before you all start jumping all over my farkel, I've owned only one Corvette, but I've owned four TBirds. The TBird is much more practical.

And, I'm not really that thrilled over the latest Corvette/Ferrari wannabe's. I think they may have lost their way. As a 22 year old in 1965, I could afford a new Corvette. As a 22 year old today, I doubt it.

The performance market for the regular guy wanting an American car has shifted to the Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers. IMHO, the Corvette buyer has morphed into the older male looking to grab back some youth.

(Come to think about it, what's wrong with that?)

Wow...... do I ever disagree with this thought on afford-ability.

The newest Corvette is the very best Corvette yet in terms of value and what you get for just a little more money than you shell out on a more pedestrian ride these days....really....... and as always it's still within the reach of any working man or woman willing to dig a little deeper to get one. With a search on the INTERNET you can take one off the lot for the same price as a fully loaded up 2005 T-Bird at list price 6 years ago.

If you know kids who can't afford one....... I think that says less about the pricing on a Corvette than it does the kind of jobs a high school graduate can get today vs when you an I were so young.

Still, a twenty-thirty something with a college degree and an actual paying profession can still easily dig just a little deeper and buy this car as easily as you or I might have in years past. I see so many driving BMW, Lexus and other luxury models in my area that set them back as much or more than a new Corvette.

I'll give you this much........ today as in years past...this isn't the typical buyer. For as long as I can remember GM has described a Corvette buyer as a man in his mid-40s on average.

This makes sense for an "Impractical" 2 seater. Kids out of the house, mortgage payments gone or near gone and 20 plus years into a career gives this "typical" buyer an edge no kid starting out is ever gonna match.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

I am totally confused. What does the Environmental Protection Agency have to do with this issue? Does EPA stand for something else?

I think the reasoning is found in the idea that the part is mandated by EPA law to work and be warrantied for longer than the standard warranty. (at least this is what others in the thread seem to be suggesting)

Assuming the people saying this part is warrantied for 8 years are correct........ I'm surprised this part isn't in stock.

You'd think Ford would have at least kept the part coming and in stock for at least the EPA mandated period of warranty.

If for no other reason than to avoid any fights with a Government agency that has the full taxing ability of the US tax payer behind it to litigate things to the point where Ford could buy and keep in stock more PCMs than they'd need to replace one in every T-Bid ever built with one.

A legal fight with the Government is a sure loser for any company unfortunate enough to get into it.

[Peterfurlan]

Re: pcm problem

I think the reasoning is found in the idea that the part is mandated by EPA law to work and be warrantied for longer than the standard warranty. (at least this is what others in the thread seem to be suggesting)

Assuming the people saying this part is warrantied for 8 years are correct........ I'm surprised this part isn't in stock.

You'd think Ford would have at least kept the part coming and in stock for at least the EPA mandated period of warranty.

If for no other reason than to avoid any fights with a Government agency that has the full taxing ability of the US tax payer behind it to litigate things to the point where Ford could buy and keep in stock more PCMs than they'd need to replace one in every T-Bid ever built with one.

A legal fight with the Government is a sure loser for any company unfortunate enough to get into it.

It is neither a suggestion or assumption but a fact. When in doubt check
it out. EPA 420-F96-020

[jerrym3]

Re: pcm problem

Don't know, Merlot Blue

In 65, I hadn't even started night college. I was a "picker packer" in a Ford parts warehouse, but I was able to put together savings from years of not-so-great paying jobs, and buy a new Vette...cash, $4,290. (Shocked the heck out of the salesman.)

A year earlier, I almost bought a new 64 Galaxie 500XL convertible for a bit over $3,000, but I held off, saved some more, and sprang for the Corvette. (I had no idea that I would buy a used 64 Galaxie in 1969 and keep it for 40+ years.)

(As a comparison, my cousin bought a new 65 Impala SS 2 dr hardtop, 327/250, 4 speed for about $3,150.)

Don't know if younger folks in today's job market can save the money for a new Corvette, cash.

Today, kids with college degrees are having trouble finding work. Seems like the lower cost pocket rockets are getting a lot of attention, but I guess it depends on where you live.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

Don't know, Merlot Blue

In 65, I hadn't even started night college. I was a "picker packer" in a Ford parts warehouse, but I was able to put together savings from years of not-so-great paying jobs, and buy a new Vette...cash, $4,290. (Shocked the heck out of the salesman.)

A year earlier, I almost bought a new 64 Galaxie 500XL convertible for a bit over $3,000, but I held off, saved some more, and sprang for the Corvette. (I had no idea that I would buy a used 64 Galaxie in 1969 and keep it for 40+ years.)

(As a comparison, my cousin bought a new 65 Impala SS 2 dr hardtop, 327/250, 4 speed for about $3,150.)

Don't know if younger folks in today's job market can save the money for a new Corvette, cash.

Today, kids with college degrees are having trouble finding work. Seems like the lower cost pocket rockets are getting a lot of attention, but I guess it depends on where you live.

Today?

46 years later?

If I slip a ZERO onto your numbers......

The ratio of the cost difference seems to be roughly the same today as then.

GMs current version of the Impala, loaded up and in SS trim, will run you a sticker price around $31,500 vs the $3150 in '65.

Ford doesn't sell anything called "Galaxie 500" now but a Mustang GT convertible is a V8 rear drive car that can be found around $30,000 if you deal hard enough for it vs $3,000 for the older car. If that Galaxie vs Mustang comparison is too big a stretch........then I suppose we could simply say that $30,000 for a nicely equipped Ford family car of most any description is nothing unexpected or excessive today.

.....and finally today a hard top Corvette without any extras can be had in the $42,900 range....it retails for a little more but you can get 'em under $45,000 if you shop around .........wait 'till the end of the model year and you can even get it with some extras.

........the real story here may be less about cars and more about how inflation has robbed the purchasing power of a US dollar so dramatically since 1965. The 1970s really were a classic example of how quickly your cash savings might be eroded again should another bout of un-checked inflation happen again.

That could easily get me into what I do for a living and talking about how you invest and protect yourself from that sort of thing....... but we're already well away from the original topic here.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: pcm problem

It is neither a suggestion or assumption but a fact. When in doubt check
it out. EPA 420-F96-020

Well....then that just leaves one question.

Why in the world are these parts not "in-stock" for when they are needed?

I mean really......... REQUIRING by Government mandate that Ford must replace a defective part at their cost is of little meaning if they can escape the obligation by not having 'em in stock.

I would expect even a less than good lawyer could make argument that asks,

"Is Ford attempting to escape the cost of repair by not stocking this part?
If it's unavailable for weeks or months at a time is the company trying to get the owner of a covered vehicle to just give up and buy a new car?"

If I were the OP I think that it's time to stop being so "nice"........ the old saw is true sometimes. Unfortunately, nice guys really do finish last. This one sounds like a fight........ he didn't start it but he can probably finish it if he gets more aggressive.

I hope he'll keep us updated as to how this one ends.

[007Cruiser]

Re: pcm problem

The OP has his PCM.

[5bird7]

Re: pcm problem

Steve, post #127

[dartguy699]

Re: pcm problem

you know, all this hysteria blows my mind!! if you think about it, the reason the pcm is hard to get is that the demand for it is extremely low! if that many of them went bad then there would be plenty available. i have worked on many brands of vehicles and have run across availability issues on all brands especially high end imports.
the solution to the posted issue would have been to source a used pcm from a salvage yard as all birds are alike mechanically and electronically but that would have been a customer pay issue instead of ford footing the bill.
my advice to all of you who are woried about a failure is this: DRIVE IT AND ENJOY IT!! you will likely never have a problem and if you do then a solution will be available but by that time ford will not be paying the bill. (the biggest cause of computer failures i have seen was dirty battery cables causing the electronic spike that fails them)
\ jim:

[4LOWBIRDS+7]

Re: pcm problem

you know, all this hysteria blows my mind!! if you think about it, the reason the pcm is hard to get is that the demand for it is extremely low! if that many of them went bad then there would be plenty available. i have worked on many brands of vehicles and have run across availability issues on all brands especially high end imports.
the solution to the posted issue would have been to source a used pcm from a salvage yard as all birds are alike mechanically and electronically but that would have been a customer pay issue instead of ford footing the bill.
my advice to all of you who are woried about a failure is this: DRIVE IT AND ENJOY IT!! you will likely never have a problem and if you do then a solution will be available but by that time ford will not be paying the bill. (the biggest cause of computer failures i have seen was dirty battery cables causing the electronic spike that fails them)
\ jim:

WELL SAID.