Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

[Underdog]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Does this car have performance? Once again, this car is not meant for quarter mile runs. It weighs in at near 3,800 lbs, but the suspension is nice and comfy.

that was funny. What new car is lighter? Most are bloated with weight, not just the Tbird

[2K2BIRD]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Sorry wrong thread.

[Rondor]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Does this car have performance? Once again, this car is not meant for quarter mile runs. It weighs in at near 3,800 lbs, but the suspension is nice and comfy.

that was funny. What new car is lighter? Most are bloated with weight, not just the Tbird

I don't remeber all the muscle cars being light. A few Nova's and Musrangs but there were some prety fast Poncho's and a few big Fords
One of the fastest cars on the street in Orlando in 1965 was a big block Pontiac BONNEVILLE. As I Recall it weighed in way over 4,000 lbs.

[landshark]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Time will tell the future of this retro bird,the public loves to dust off the past and invent the new out of it. For me the car stands alone in world of fast tech, instant knowledge and whiz bang flash. Much research was done for the T-bird, Its style says so much in retro feel and touch.Ive had mine for now 8yrs, and still its a thrill to take out of the garage.And while i take into Manhatten, cabbies smile. people look while you drive away. i always smile when people look at the Bird and not the 250k car beside her. I feel this car was a classic the day it was shown to the public. But time will tell. Thx to all who loves T- bird.

[lasuvidaboy]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

I don't remeber all the muscle cars being light. A few Nova's and Musrangs but there were some prety fast Poncho's and a few big Fords
One of the fastest cars on the street in Orlando in 1965 was a big block Pontiac BONNEVILLE. As I Recall it weighed in way over 4,000 lbs.

Muscle cars were not light and a full-sized 1965 Bonneville was over 18' long and heavy. Cars became lighter in the late 1970s and 1980s but w/all the new technology and safety features installed over the last 20 years, cars have gained weight. As an example, a late 1980s Honda Accord or Civic is very light (and smaller) than today's versions.

[jerrym3]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Muscle cars were not light and a full-sized 1965 Bonneville was over 18' long and heavy. Cars became lighter in the late 1970s and 1980s but w/all the new technology and safety features installed over the last 20 years, cars have gained weight. As an example, a late 1980s Honda Accord or Civic is very light (and smaller) than today's versions.

True, the first musclecars were not light, but, being based on the intermediate bodies, they were lighter than their full sized brothers.

GM 1964 intermediate bodies seemed to be a lot bigger/heavier as opposed to their 1963 versions. Ford's 64 intermediates didn't have a major body style change such as GM.

Again, the age old question, what was the first musclecar? 64 GTO?

I still vote for the Studebaker Golden Hawk of the late 50's.

[Peterfurlan]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Again a little off topic but the first muscle car would have to be the 1955 Chrysler
300.

[4LOWBIRDS+7]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Again a little off topic but the first muscle car would have to be the 1955 Chrysler
300.

I WOULD AGREE, USED THE BIGGEST ENGINE AND THE WINDSOR BODY.

[2K2BIRD]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Sounds like you guys are pretty close. Found this on Wikipedia concerning the origin of the muscle car:

Opinions on the origin of the muscle car vary, but the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, created in response to public interest in speed and power, is often cited as the first muscle car. It featured America's first high-compression overhead valve V8 in the smaller, lighter Oldsmobile 76/Chevy body for six-cylinder engines (as opposed to bigger Olds 98 luxury body).[9]
Musclecars magazine wrote: "[t]he idea of putting a full-size V8 under the hood of an intermediate body and making it run like Jesse Owens in Berlin belongs to none other than Oldsmobile... [The] all-new ohv V8...Rocket engine quickly found its way into the lighter 76 series body, and in February 1949, the new 88 series was born."[10]
The article continued: "Walt Woron of Motor Trend enjoyed the 'quick-flowing power...that pins you to your seat and keeps you there until you release your foot from the throttle [...] Olds dominated the performance landscape in 1950, including wins in the NASCAR Grand National division, Daytona Speed Weeks, and the 2100-plus-mile Carrera Panamericana. In (Belgium), an 88 won a production car race at Spa-Francorchamps [...] A husky V8 in a cleanly styled, lightweight coupe body, the original musclecar truly was the '49 Olds 88."[10]
Jack Nerad wrote in Driving Today, "the Rocket V-8 set the standard for every American V-8 engine that would follow it for at least three decades [...] With a displacement of 303 cubic inches and topped by a two-barrel carburetor, the first Rocket V-8 churned out 135 hp (101 kW; 137 PS) at 3,600 rpm and 263 pound-feet of torque at a lazy 1800 rpm [and] no mid-range car in the world, save the Hudson Hornet, came close to the Rocket Olds performance potential..."
Nerad added that the Rocket 88 was "the hit of NASCAR’s 1950 season, winning eight of the 10 races. Given its lightning-like success, one could clearly make the case that the Olds 88 with its 135 horsepower (101 kW) V-8 was the first 'musclecar'..."[11]
Steve Dulcich, writing in Popular Hot Rodding, also cites Oldsmobile, concurrently with Cadillac, as having "launched the modern era of the high-performance V-8 with the introduction of the "Rocket 88" overhead-valve V8 in 1949."[12]

Other manufacturers showcased performance hardware in flashy limited-edition models. Chrysler led the way with its 1955 C-300, an inspired blend of Hemi power and luxury-car trappings that became the new star of NASCAR. With 300 horsepower (224 kW), it was advertised as "America's Most Powerful Car".[9]
Capable of accelerating from 0 to 60 mph (97 km/h) in 9.8 seconds and reaching 130 miles per hour (209 km/h), the 1955 Chrysler 300 is also recognized as one of the best-handling cars of its era.[13]

[Peterfurlan]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

My first car was a 1951 Oldsmobile Super 88 two door hardtop. It had the Rocket 88
engine. If I remember correctly the Super 88 and the 98 engines had four barrel carbs
and the regular 88 a two barrel. It was a fast car for its day but to call it a muscle car
that's pushing it. Believe it or not the Hudson Hornets were right up there with the Olds.

[4LOWBIRDS+7]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

THE CHRYSLER 300 WAS NEVER BEATEN BY A SIX CYLINDER HUDSON. SO I REST MY CASE.

[Peterfurlan]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

THE CHRYSLER 300 WAS NEVER BEATEN BY A SIX CYLINDER HUDSON. SO I REST MY CASE.

DITTO

[jerrym3]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

I WOULD AGREE, USED THE BIGGEST ENGINE AND THE WINDSOR BODY.

I always thought the definition of a musclecar was big motor, smaller body. Otherwise, the Pontiac Catalina 421 would be considered a musclecar, and it wasn't.

Did the 55 Chrysler, excluding the Imperial, have different size bodies, or just different levels of trim? Was the Windsor smaller than the New Yorker?

My high school buddy had a 57 Windsor 4 dr hardtop. Same body as the higher priced Chrsysler New Yorker. Different trim level.

Golden Hawk was a smaller bodied car.

If you still think the Chrysler is the first musclecar, what about the 55 Packard Patrician?

[Peterfurlan]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Back in the fifties the classification for a Packard Patrician would have been
boat, bomb or tank. Performance wise nothing styling the same just one of the
reasons Packard went under. You might be thinking of the Packard Caribbean
which styling wise was a little better than the Patrician.

[jerrym3]

Re: Thunderbird is a Modern Collectible

Back in the fifties the classification for a Packard Patrician would have been
boat, bomb or tank. Performance wise nothing styling the same just one of the
reasons Packard went under. You might be thinking of the Packard Caribbean
which styling wise was a little better than the Patrician.

Agreed, the Patrician and the Caribbean were boats and in no way musclecars.

I should have written Packard Clipper, which had a smaller body (than the boats), but still had the motor of the big car.

Found this while Googling Packard Clipper.


"The 1955 Packard Clipper Custom Constellation was an attractive hardtop with the new ohv V-8 and torsion-level suspension from the senior Packards. Engine output was discreetly rated at 15 less horsepower, however."

Wonder what "discreetly" meant here. Was there really less HP, or did they just rate it less to keep the buyers of the senior Packards happy?

So, a smaller/lighter body and an engine from the bigger models. Isn't that the original design of a musclecar?