new computer installation

[Brad]

Re: new computer installation

Without diagnosing what the problem actually is a new engine sounds extreme.

I think you need a "fresh set of eyes" to take a look at it. As was mentioned previously corrosion could be the culprit.

I know someone that had their PCM replaced on their Tbird and the problem was actually a corroded wire connection.

You need someone with advanced electrical/electronic diagnostic abilities to trace it from the cylinder back, step by stop. Sounds like they have tried to replace items on both ends but now they need to check the wiring in-between the components.

[Welker]

Re: new computer installation

Thanks, Brad, I told them about the electrical connections and the possible aging related issues, corroded bit and pieces, the need to go over aspect of the connections. They claim to have done all that including doing the same things over and over(Einstein's definition of insanity). If they don't find the solution today I will have to decide on next steps and I am out of ideas. I could go on EBay and offer it for parts....it is still a beautiful car, new top, all records and such. Somebody with new ideas might find the answer.

[Welker]

Re: new computer installation

The Borg Warner COP didn't make a difference....one cylinder still dead. It might be the engine wiring harness but if so there are none around...anywhere in the US according to all reports. Maybe a junk yard search would turn one up. The LS harnesses are not the same.....and, nobody is sure it is the harness but just about everything else has been ruled out.

Does anybody have experience with donating cars to charity...how much write off is allowed...over how many years, etc?

How about selling it for parts...owners manual, hard top, xm radio, etc?

Any suggestions? Anybody?

[HKS]

Re: new computer installation

Did they check compression? Did they check to see if the fuel injectors work?

If so, it must be electrical?

HKS

I was under the impression that Ford had a way to look at the spark waveform. Is that OK?

The Borg Warner COP didn't make a difference....one cylinder still dead. It might be the engine wiring harness but if so there are none around...anywhere in the US according to all reports. Maybe a junk yard search would turn one up. The LS harnesses are not the same.....and, nobody is sure it is the harness but just about everything else has been ruled out.
Does anybody have experience with donating cars to charity...how much write off is allowed...over how many years, etc?
How about selling it for parts...owners manual, hard top, xm radio, etc?
Any suggestions? Anybody?

[Peterfurlan]

Re: new computer installation

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check the continuity of a electrical harness. Check the number three wire for continuity for starters. Someone who knows what hes
doing could jump all wires related to the number three cylinder and possibly isolate the
problem. Find a old school mechanic who is good and he may just surprise you.

[00mustng]

Re: new computer installation

....what about a specialty performance shop?....

[007Cruiser]

Re: new computer installation

You definitely need another opinion.

[Welker]

Re: new computer installation

I was able to get one of the old time guys and he says he will dig into this and find the gremlin as soon as Ford is finished. He sounds sincere and was recommended to me by one of the top guys here in Prescott. Ford called today and said the big boys, whoever they are, at Ford are in on this and have insisted on rebuilding the harness since they cleared the computer module. That rebuild should go in soon(sigh) and if that doesn't work the car goes to the gremlin finder. I am still getting the input from 2carpros, who are generally good, but I don't think they are going to come up with anything. I did find an '04 motor from a wrecked TBird but it didn't have the harness, which seems at this point, to be what it is all about.

[04birdman]

Re: new computer installation

what a friggin nightmare .. maybe not finding the part is one thing ... not being able to isolate the problem ... ? in 1970 could isolate a wiring problem on a B52 with only a volt meter .... some progress we made ....

[Welker]

Re: new computer installation

Right, Frank. I've often heard it said that all this diagnostic stuff can identify a problem but give no hint to the solution. For what it's worth, the one guy I contacted who had the kind of experience we all remember from the old days, you know, the guy who swore the best car ever built was the '37 Buick, is anxious to get his hands on the car and find the solution...if that happens my faith in everything will be restored. I will say that I think my Ford dealer is trying to solve the problem and, so far, hasn't made a lot of excuses...just keeps trying and failing. I'm starting to believe that maybe the '37 Buick was the best car ever built.

[007Cruiser]

Re: new computer installation

[312]

Re: new computer installation

This problem has to boil down to just a few things.
1. a mechanical problem with the cylinder itself.
2. a gas or oil fouled plug.
3. no spark to the cylinder
4. no fuel to the cylinder (injector problem)

The first thing i would do is eliminate the possibility of no spark because its easiest. Buy or borrow a known good spark plug. Put the cop on it and ground the plug on the engine (metal) the same as if it were installed. If it fires when the engine is run , your problem is not electrical.If it does not fire then you will have to trace back to the computer to find the problem (may be the computer) I would check to see if the COP was getting voltage to it before going this route.I would check where the wires go into the covers because they could be grounding out there for just that cylinder.By the way if you are wondering what the primary voltage should be to the cop take a measurement off of a working cop connector as a reference and see what you are getting. If you can get a meter that has a min/max feature that would help. Use the min/max to get an average reading for comparison.

If i had spark to the plug , i would perform a compression test on the motor to see if the cylinder had lost compression for some reason.Examine the plug that is not firing.Is it oil fouled or gas fouled?If you don't smell gas on the plug you don't have any going to that cylinder. They may have performed a leak down test on the cylinder but that will not always tell you if the cylinder is building normal compression .Try the compression test first.
No way would i buy a motor to cure this problem without determining the mechanical condition of the motor. If its electrical, you are back to page 1.
Be careful when doing any of these tests, high voltage is involved .If you don't understand some of this and feel confidant about it , get some help from someone who knows. Do any of this at your own risk.Good luck. Randy

[Brad]

Re: new computer installation

Frank, I worked on 1960's aircraft and a volt meter only help on some circuits and only when they are energized. The same ohm meter or continuity tester would help back then as well as now for wiring. You can use the same meter at the spark plug to see if you have power by just turning the engine over. If not, work your way all the way back to the fusebox.

I question the dealer that "tested the computer" I've never heard of dealerships having the bench equipment to do it unless the device they use to program it can test it as well. The stories I've heard involve them getting a new computer and trying it to see if it works.

[Welker]

Re: new computer installation

I have relayed all the info you all have provided and they do appreciate it. They claim to have done everything that can be done both mechanical and electrical including sending the computer module to Ford Corporate which was prepared to make a new one(or have one made) but the one from the car tested ok. For sure they could not test it at the dealership. it has been by a process of elimination that both the dealer and Ford have decided that the problem lies in the wiring harness which is unavailable from anyplace in the US. My rep wasn't in today but everybody at the dealership is aware of cylinder#3 problem and one guy said, "They've been tearing their hair out over it". The parts guy said he was told that Ford cannot provide a new or rebuilt or whatever wiring harness and everybody involved is trying to locate one. Like I said, I found an 04 motor from a junk yard website but it did not have the harness and, so far, I have had no luck at all in finding a replacement harness so, I guess, that answers the question about the ten year backup of parts. So far, all the news has been bad. I don't expect any more news till Monday when my guy at the dealership gets back in. If anybody out there knows of a wrecked TBird going for parts I sure would like to hear about it.

[HKS]

Re: new computer installation

I wonder if mechanics know how to troubleshoot with a volt-ohm meter anymore. I think they rely on the diagnostic computer to tell them everything. At work, we had a Dodge van with a bad fuel gage. When full, it would peg out well over max. Motor pool replaced the entire instrument cluster. Then the radio did not work. They took it to the Dodge dealer to re-enable the radio. After that the ABS did not work etc.

I suspected the fuel gage circuit had a bad ground conection. Maby it could have been fixed by simply disconecting and reconecting the instrument cluster thus knocking off some corrosion. Of course replacing the cluster also cleared the corroded conector.

HKS
P.S. I had a new computer wiring harness installed, under warranty, to cure a radio interference problem. It did not help.

This problem has to boil down to just a few things.
1. a mechanical problem with the cylinder itself.
2. a gas or oil fouled plug.
3. no spark to the cylinder
4. no fuel to the cylinder (injector problem)

The first thing i would do is eliminate the possibility of no spark because its easiest. Buy or borrow a known good spark plug. Put the cop on it and ground the plug on the engine (metal) the same as if it were installed. If it fires when the engine is run , your problem is not electrical.If it does not fire then you will have to trace back to the computer to find the problem (may be the computer) I would check to see if the COP was getting voltage to it before going this route.I would check where the wires go into the covers because they could be grounding out there for just that cylinder.By the way if you are wondering what the primary voltage should be to the cop take a measurement off of a working cop connector as a reference and see what you are getting. If you can get a meter that has a min/max feature that would help. Use the min/max to get an average reading for comparison.

If i had spark to the plug , i would perform a compression test on the motor to see if the cylinder had lost compression for some reason.Examine the plug that is not firing.Is it oil fouled or gas fouled?If you don't smell gas on the plug you don't have any going to that cylinder. They may have performed a leak down test on the cylinder but that will not always tell you if the cylinder is building normal compression .Try the compression test first.
No way would i buy a motor to cure this problem without determining the mechanical condition of the motor. If its electrical, you are back to page 1.
Be careful when doing any of these tests, high voltage is involved .If you don't understand some of this and feel confidant about it , get some help from someone who knows. Do any of this at your own risk.Good luck. Randy