Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

[Linear]

UPDATE!! PROBLEM SOLVED! See post #79 in this thread.

There has been a lot of discussion recently about unavailable (obsolete, back-ordered) parts and Ford's responsibility regarding our ability to repair our TBirds. The consensus seems to be that, legally at least, Ford can ignore this problem, especially since our cars are over 10 years old. Fortunately, there are some suppliers out there that can provide some "non-OEM" and refurbished parts, and hopefully this supply will improve in the future.

BUT, what happens if you have a valid ESP (Extended Service Plan) that legally requires Ford to repair your TBird and the required parts are unavailable? Well, I'm about to find out!

TEABIRD has a defective PCM (Power Control Module) which is covered under my ESP, BUT, as has been discussed in several other threads, PCM modules have been unavailable from Ford for some time (1 year? 2 years?) The fine print in the ESP document says that only "Ford authorized new or remanufactured parts or other products We authorize" can be used in the repair.

The key word in the above paragraph is "authorized"! Due to the good work of some TBN members, a list has been created listing a number of companies selling "refurbished" PCM modules (e.g. Flagship One Inc.), but none of them seem to be "authorized" by Ford. So, my Dealer says that he can not use any of these "refurbished" PCMs under the ESP warranty and I have to buy it myself, or wait until Ford provides a new OEM PCM!! (which is probably never!)

Now, I paid over $2000 for my ESP, so obviously I am not happy with the above situation! My Service Manager and I have been trying to contact someone at Ford that could perhaps authorize a refurbished PCM, but so far, we can't get past the "Area Service Rep". They won't give me her contact info, and she refuses to contact me to discuss the issue. The Ford Customer Relations Center opened a case number, but they say the only way "up the management chain" is through the Service Manager and Area Rep!! :-(

I will update this thread as this situation develops. Meanwhile, if anyone has faced a similar ESP problem, please let me know how it worked out. Also, it would be useful to know when the last Ford OEM PCM was delivered. If anyone got one in the last year or two please post the date on this thread.

Best regards to all!
Doug (aka Linear)

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Seems to me that you have a binding contract for them to repair your vehicle. The ball is in their court to get the part and make the repair unless there's an exclusion for such a situation. Looks like you're headed to litigation if they don't keep their word.

[Guest]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hi Doug,

Sorry you're having this problem, and you bring up a very good point; there are thousands of 2002-2005 Thunderbirds currently covered by Ford-issued ESPs, and you're not alone needing a part that is out of production. I spoke to another Retro owner earlier this week who is facing the same problem, though he does not have an ESP. The shop doing his repairs have bought (and later returned) rebuilt PCMS from a number of aftermarket companies including two PCMS from Cardone ... so far none have worked.

The PCM is currently shown as 'back ordered' by Ford, but with no release date. This basically means a customer or dealer can order one, but there is no estimate on when (or if) the part will become available.

As far as speaking to someone at Ford about this, I've spoken numerous times with the head of Ford Restoration Parts Licensing, and the VP of Warranty Engineering, and both have indicated that Ford has no plans to remanufacture OEM replacement parts for the 2002-2005 Thunderbird.

When I mentioned to them the problem with cars covered by Ford ESPs for which required repair parts were needed, their response was basically that there are a lot of 10+ year old Ford cars for which parts are no longer available, and when I asked if they were concerned about possible legal action as a result I was told, "Ford has a lot of lawyers." I could hardly believe a senior Ford employee would say something like that, but they did.

I don't know how all this will end, but I'm certain it will get worse before it gets better.

And no, the 'sky is not falling,' but for T-Bird owners like you, it's a pretty serious issue.

Incidentally, PCMS from Retros are not interchangeable. You can't take one from just any other Retro and 'plug it into' another. There are dozens of different part numbers for the 2002 alone, and many other superseded part numbers for the 2003-2005. The only way to ensure you get one that works is to cross-reference the PCM with the VIN, and regardless of where you get a replacement, it will need to be reprogrammed, despite the claims of some aftermarket companies who sell them.

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

This is one of the reasons why I don't buy warranties.

[valkyrie]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Is the Ford dealer offering you a loaner? is that in the ESP?

[Guest]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Seems to me that you have a binding contract for them to repair your vehicle. The ball is in their court to get the part and make the repair unless there's an exclusion for such a situation. Looks like you're headed to litigation if they don't keep their word.

The option of litigation against Ford is an uphill battle to say the least. I know others here have tried, and as far as I can recall, none got the resolution they wanted, and all waited a long time and endured a lot of obstacles for any resolution.

[Sandy J]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

This is GOING TO BE INTERESTING to see how FORD HANDLES THIS SITUATION > As I also have the FORD ESP that I have paid for and carried on my TBIRD .. SO PLEASE KEEP US POSTED " AS TO FORD's HANDLING of THIS SITUATION !!!

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

The option of litigation against Ford is an uphill battle to say the least. I know others here have tried, and as far as I can recall, none got the resolution they wanted, and all waited a long time and endured a lot of obstacles for any resolution.

No doubt about that. Perhaps they would fear bad publicity more. Television stations here have consumer reporters that often get results when the consumer has been damaged.

[Linear]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Thanks all for your responses, and especially LAPHIL for your detailed reply. It is kind of sad when Ford takes the "Lawyer Route" as a solution..... sounds like the burning Pinto cars all over again.

Steve, my ESP contract provides for 10 days of rental car coverage at $30/day. So, not very good for the long term. My dealer has loaned me a car for a few days in the past, but he can't afford to go long term.

I'm an engineer, not a lawyer, but I have read the ESP contract carefully and there does not seem to be an exception or even a mention of unavailable parts. There is, however, a provision for non-binding arbitration through the Better Business Bureau. This might be one of the only (cost effective) ways to get Ford's attention, but they might just send a lawyer to tell me to get lost or sue them!

Wish me luck!

[Guest]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hi Again Doug,

I think both Bill Coates and Jim Dube (AZTB) went through the mandatory arbitration with Ford. I don't think Jim was successful ... don't recall for sure what Bill's outcome was. I do recall that the process was quite lengthy and the arbitration clause is usually included in contracts as a stalling tactic to postpone and/or discourage a formal lawsuit.

And Gene, I think you're right that the potential bad publicity would hurt Ford a lot more than just another lawsuit. Can you imagine some hot-shot attorney putting together a class action suit of say 1,000 or more Retro owners and then going to the press with it? I can just hear CNN blasting the news about how Ford 'abandoned' owners of its classic, iconic, 'Living Legend' 'Halo Car,' the famous Ford Thunderbird.

I sure hope it doesn't come to that. It would be a lot less expensive and MUCH better PR for Ford to just produce the needed parts and support Thunderbird owners.

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Doug....since you are in NC. You can even file a complaint online.

http://www.ncdoj.gov/consumer.aspx

[jerrym3]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hi Again Doug,

I think both Bill Coates and Jim Dube (AZTB) went through the mandatory arbitration with Ford. I don't think Jim was successful ... don't recall for sure what Bill's outcome was. I do recall that the process was quite lengthy and the arbitration clause is usually included in contracts as a stalling tactic to postpone and/or discourage a formal lawsuit.

And Gene, I think you're right that the potential bad publicity would hurt Ford a lot more than just another lawsuit. Can you imagine some hot-shot attorney putting together a class action suit of say 1,000 or more Retro owners and then going to the press with it? I can just hear CNN blasting the news about how Ford 'abandoned' owners of its classic, iconic, 'Living Legend' 'Halo Car,' the famous Ford Thunderbird.

I sure hope it doesn't come to that. It would be a lot less expensive and MUCH better PR for Ford to just produce the needed parts and support Thunderbird owners.

I think you are out of luck, Doug.

Phil, where are the 1,000 retro users having problems with their ESP's? Even if there were 1,000 complaints, CNN doesn't care about Ford abandoning it's customers unless it's a major issue regarding consumer safety. Then, rather than a big lawsuit, Ford, or any major manufacturer, would respond. One, or 1,000, consumer problems over parts availability isn't worth CNN or Ford's time.

Ford used to have a Consumer Board. I sent a letter to them regarding a drive train vibration issue on my new 85 TurboCoupe.

Ford wouldn't fix the vibration under warranty because my drive train vibration came on over 55 mph, which was the max legal speed in NJ at the time. Per Ford, I was driving at an illegal speed.

The Board took Ford's side.

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Maybe a different (more cooperative) dealer?

[wcoates]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Doug
In my trials with my transmission I spoke with Customer Service, Powertrain warranty group and the ESP group getting no satisfaction. I got two comments of " we have deeper pockets than you" and "we have more lawyers than you". Great customer service.

local small claims court suggested going through local arbitration before going through small claims court. Did to no avail. Finally went to file at small claims and was told I was ok with local Ford Dealer but needed a name to put on the FoMoCo part. Called (don't have numbers as am away from home--will get) the office of the director of engineering warranty only as a courtesy so they weren't surprised by the legal proceedings. Admin asked if paper work was ever submitted. only three times was 14 pages of documentation submitted to legal with no acknowledgment of receipt. referred me to a person who listened and said she'd get back. Didn't get back but got a call from local Ford shop saying it would be taken care. They took tranny apart twice more and replaced parts before getting back to me saying it was not tranny but rather PCM. They searched the country and found no new parts available and they said ( as Phil did also) that even though showing on "backorder" that parts would never show. That got us to re-manufactured. car ran well but then it went to winter sleep. my issue wasn't with ESP AS MINE EXPIRED. Issue for me was not honoring warranty I was given with the replacement tranny that was replaced under the ESP.

I did write a glowing letter to the person who helped's boss. Received a nice letter thanking me for taking the time to write about her employee's help and professionalism. will get you those names when I get home. Am at Attorney daughter's. She and her Attorney hubby say your case seems like a no brainer and document everything and stay the course. say yours is a stronger case than mine.

[AZTB]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Ford (and two of their dealers) beat me up in my dealings with them over my tranny issue on the '05, no 2 ways about it. But Doug, this place (TBN) is THE place to come to for answers, insight and expertise. If I had things to do over, I'd may have done some things differently, but even without that, the people on this site are 2nd to none, IMO. Best wishes.